Saturday, October 06, 2007

Mass Grave Excavation in Indonesia






Via, http://www.overseasthinktankforindonesia.com.

10 comments:

ctrlz said...

orgghh... Soeharto regime....
I have a friend from military family who loves Soeharto so much...
hmm.. its the dark side of indonesia history eniwei...
when i was young i hate 'g30 september pki' movie... and I got misunderstanding about the meaning of communism itself from this movie and all suharto propaganda... so when I heard communism word, its such a horror brought me to this movie, bloody gory scenes, anti-god party and suharto as hero in this movie...
I pray no more human tragedy like this in Indonesia ...peace,peace... but in east Indonesia people still killing each other for religious stuff... war/conflict just make poverty, why cant we stop this??

Beni Bevly said...

Hi John, it's nice to know you who are passionate about Indonesia and enjoying "Teh Botol". Thank you for contributing to Indonesia.

Ctrlz, I feel the same thing and pain whenever I recall all these tragedies. Why can we stop this? It's hard to answer this question. I think we are as Indonesia are easily influenced by negative persuasion, we like the idea of "mengkotak-kotakan" or deviding people base on their race, religion or ideology and we are also not taught to accept the difference sincerely, instead hoping other people to "melt" themselves to us (Government says it assimilation, actually it's acculturation).

johnorford said...

CtrlZ, I would stay this stuff doesn't stop, because ppl don't think critically about the history of Indonesia -- luckily people like Beni are chipping away at that problem tho!

ctrlz said...

Hmm, yes I agree with we like to 'mengkotak-kotakan' idea in our social life..
but Im abit puzzled, after he collapsed, there's alot bad version stories toward him. Suharto had very strong military ever in Indonesia.. After him... our islands are stolen by our neighbor, in neighborhood, Indonesia is not better but getting worse…
Im not fond of Suharto … but I don’t think communism is worth ideology for Indonesia…’ in theory, communism works… ‘ but not in practice..
Indonesia is a big country… and to manage this country,we need a strong and smart leader.. , Suharto is a strong leader we ever had, he’s just getting old, people get bored and he had enemies from East Timor, 65' people, … dunno what Suharto ‘really’ done in the past.. Australian public said, he’s barbaric leader… but I read much about Bush, Blair .. Margareth,… there’s a lot bad theory for them… then I think every country has their own evil… from my personal opinion, Suharto has some good points during 32 years his dictatorship… yes.. at that time our media was not different from our neighbors.. All were base on government control… unlike today, Indonesia is very freedom of speech country in South East Asia..
What I feel sad about Indonesian today… we don’t believe our government, blaming our government.. and who shall we believe then??
I have some friends from China… and they believe their government much than what western media said about their government… I have a big question for myself???
How about us...

Beni Bevly said...

Ctrlz, it is interesting to say that some governments are trusted and respected by their people and vice versa.

I think that is a lot things to do with the head or the symbol of a government. It relates to their life style (honesty) and how they treat their people (just).

There is a phenomenon in most Thai restaurants in the United States, I do not know in other countries. The owner of the restaurant likes to hang their king and queen pictures on the wall, so every body can see them. I do not see this pattern in other restaurants.

In one occasion, I asked one of the owners who was Thai, "Why do you have your king and queen pictures in this restaurant." She replied, "We love them. They are just like our dad and mom. They are very close to our hearts."

Her answer makes sense to me, one of the reason because Thai King normally will act wisely in any uncertain political situation. You can see his action especially in a situation where Thai military intervenes to civil politics. He will be the medium to solve the problem with peace.

Let's get back to Indonesia. If you look at most Indonesian people characteristics, they have paternalistic behaviors. It means, most likely, it is easy for them to love, believe in and obey their leader. If they do not, there must be some thing ugly on the leader's or government side.

This is just my thought. I could be wrong.

johnorford said...

CtrlZ,

Which presidents do you think are most at fault for Indonesia's problems today?

Somehow, I doubt any of the democratically elected presidents will be up at the top of your list - however "weak" they seem.

spew-it-all said...

Ctrlz,

The notion of Indonesia going through transitional period should be included in the discussion.

Under this frame, we then could as what changes that have happenend and will likely to happen?

Before reformasi Indonesia never has strong leader under democratic regime. Both Suharto and Sukarno are indeed strong leaders and made Indonesia as strong state. But what they've done to the country apart from building strong state (authoritarianism)? Gross violation of human rights, centralism, and failure to articulate interests from many different groups are amongst the problem that they have created and these are enduring legacy of authoritarian regimes which has to be delt with by a newly democratic government.

In a democratic nature, it is okay to criticise the government even at the extreme level such as organising mass.

ctrlz said...

haha.. I just remember I posted this comments..
a few months bfore he passed away...
he's the strongest and smartest president ever we have, but I dont really like Indonesia media when his era.. and G30SpKI.. I hate bloody gory movies..
you know, he changed much Indonesia map within 32 years his power in Indonesia.. and He has much contribution for peace in south east asia.. but about his human right abuse..Im young generation not really know about that..
this is politics.. theres no violence in revolution I think...
and another idea I should thanks to Suharto...
he wanted us Indonesian speak Bahasa.. he banned another foreign language like chinese because he has his own intention i guess..
I have a friend from India.. he speak english to his girl friend because they have different language each other.. Indonesia and India has much in common.... hundreds culture and languages... but they dont have their own language to unite them..Indonesia, we have...bahasa indonesia
and that's the most important in a nation... we have patriotic soul because we have our own language not using foreign language in our own land....
rest in peace pak harto, he's a hero but controversial leader...

ctrlz said...

theres no violence in revolution I think...
--oopsI mean there no revolution without violence and blood...

johnorford said...

i strongly disagree with u ctrlz.

indonesia is one of the poorest countries in the world. suharto was the biggest contributer to that.

as for patriotism, what percentage of indonesian's would swap their indonesian passport for a dutch one, if that meant they could work honestly and live well?